TAP TS4 interference with Zigbee

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22 comments

  • Avatar
    MW

    Firstly I tried troubleshooting by turning off the zigbee coordinator and home assistant system to rule this out. Unfortunately this did not solve the issue and devices would still turn themselves off. After all zigbee is a meshing system, pretty much every mains powered device is a router. I have mains powered devices within a few meters of the roof where panels are mounted - in fact the roof space lighting is all zigbee controlled.

    I would rather lose the monitoring of Tigo than to have to replace several hundred zigbee devices. Already I have the fast shutdown disabled as this is not needed in my location and not desirable.

    Would removing the TAP and CCA be enough to disable 2.4ghz transmissions by Tigo devices or are the TS4s constantly
    Transmitting also?

    My current zigbee channel is 11. Do you know whereabouts Tigo is using the 2.4ghz spectrum?

    Thank you.

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  • Avatar
    Curtis Community Moderator

    Hello MW

    As you have tried these methods, I think you may benefit from having a conversation with Tigo Support. 

    Our team of Engineers may be able to offer more assistance or updates that can help. For this reason, i have started a ticket with our Support Team, you should be hearing from them, very soon. In the meantime, we greatly appreciate your patience with this process. 

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  • Avatar
    MW

    Thank you. I will be quite happy to simply turn off the CCA and TAP if this will stop all transmissions to solve this. I can always turn it on occasionally to check system performance.

    I can’t not have a working zigbee network.

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  • Avatar
    MW

    Update for all future interested people who may have unexplained issue with zigbee networks, support changed the channel used by the Tigo CCN, however it still caused severe interference which causes certain devices to reset then power off (sockets), and some to power on
    (Lights)

    Video of issue replication here : https://youtube.com/shorts/6RVVekv1e-8?feature=share

    Tigo have unfortunately said there is no more they can do. The only possible solution now could be to change zigbee channel and hope it works. I am not prepared to go through the pain of reconfiguring hundreds of devices.

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  • Avatar
    M Wiedner

    "Tigo hat leider gesagt, dass sie nichts mehr tun können." .... ist leider des öfteren zu vernehmen.

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    "Unfortunately, Tigo said there was nothing more they could do." .... is unfortunately often heard.

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  • Avatar
    Permanently deleted user

    Stelle leider auch immer wieder Probleme bei meiner Hausautomation fest, die bis zur Installation der PV-Anlage nicht da waren.

    Ich ziehe auch in Betracht, die Optimierer abzumontieren.

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    Unfortunately, I keep finding problems with my home automation that were not there until the PV system was installed.

    I'm also considering removing the optimizers.

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  • Avatar
    MW

    Entschuldigung, mein Deutsch ist nicht gut. Ich muss auf Englisch antworten.

    Tigo have contacted me further.  I am speaking with their 2nd/3rd line engineers and technical people.  I have also shared that other people have reported issues.

    To remove the interference it is not required to remove the optimisers according to my testing.  Only the TAP device.  Before you turn off the TAP, make sure you have Tigo disable Rapid Shutdown.  You will need to sign a form to allow this.  This will allow the power off of TAP and allow the panels to continue to be optimised without removal at the solar panel.  

    This way you can also test if this removes the problem with minimal effort.

    Viel Glück!

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    Permanently deleted user

    Hallo Matthew,

    ist vielleicht ein Versuch wert. Letztendlich senden jedoch auch die Optimierer untereinander.

    Einen interessanten Bericht darüber finden Sie z.B. hier: Praxisreport störende DC-Optimierer: Viel Geld verbrannt | Haustec

    Auch auf einigen US-Seiten gibt es viele Interessante Praxisberichte.

    Ich würde TIGO auffordern die gesammelten Daten zu durchforsten. Das werden Sie aber nicht tun, diese Erfahrung habe ich bereits gemacht. Monate lang hab ich versucht Informationen zu kriegen (bei einem anderen Problem). Dieser Tread wurde jedoch bewusst gelöscht.  Lt. meinen Berechnungen hat seit der Inbetriebnahme meiner PV-Anlage (incl. TIGO-Optimierern) pro Modul ca. 4.000.000 Datensätze gesammelt. Und das mal 32! Lt. Support werden unter anderem: Vin, Vout, Temperatur, I, Power, RSSI ... sowie auch Kommunikationswege zu den TAP als auch untereinander alle 5 Sekunden aufgezeichnet.

    Dass man da nichts auswerten kann verstehe ich als Informatiker mit mehr als 40Jahren Praxis, einfach nicht.

    Viel Glück und alles Gute.

    Falls Sie interessiert sind, hier meine Email-Adresse: adolf@schnecker.at

    Hr. Wiedner, habe gerade gelesen dass man Sie rausgeboxt hat. Würde mich freuen, wenn Sie mit mir Kontakt aufnehmen würden. Es ist schon eine bedauerliche Vorgehensweise, was man Ihnen so unterstellt, und vor allem mit welchem Argument man den Tread schließt.

    P.S. Da ich die Community-Seiten von TIGO mehrmals am Tag automatisiert nach neuen Treads und Antworten durchscanne und mir eine Push-Meldung bei neuen Beiträgen und Änderungen geschickt wird, bin ich immer am laufenden, welche Geschichten so erzählt werden.

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    Hello Matthew,

    maybe worth a try. Ultimately, however, the optimizers also send to each other.

    You can find an interesting report on this, for example, here: Practical report on disruptive DC optimizers: a lot of money wasted | house tec

    There are also many interesting practice reports on some US sites.

    I would ask TIGO to sift through the collected data. But you won't do that, I've had this experience before. For months I tried to get information (with another problem). However, this thread was deliberately deleted. Lt. According to my calculations, since the commissioning of my PV system (including TIGO optimizers) approx. 4,000,000 data records per module have been collected. And that times 32! Lt. Among other things, support is recorded: Vin, Vout, temperature, I, power, RSSI ... as well as communication paths to the TAP and among each other every 5 seconds.

    As a computer scientist with more than 40 years of experience, I simply don't understand why you can't evaluate anything.

    Good luck and all the best.

    If you are interested, here is my email address: adolf@wormer.at

    Mr. Wiedner, I just read that you were kicked out. I would be pleased if you would contact me. It is a regrettable course of action, what you are accused of, and above all with which argument you close the thread.

    PS Since I automatically scan the TIGO community pages several times a day for new threads and replies and receive push notifications for new posts and changes, I am always up to date with the stories being told.

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  • Avatar
    MW

    Hallo Adolf,

    I will send you a mail shortly.

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  • Avatar
    Curtis Community Moderator

    Hello MW and @...

    Thank you both for participating in the Community and seeking the highest resolution possible. 

    MW, I see that you have been in contact with the Tigo Support Team, regarding this Zigbee question. Were you able to find a resolution? I will contact the Support Agent to review the case with them. 

    @... Thank you so much for being a positive force in this conversation. Tigo loves to see our community members assisting others. With that said, I did read the previous Community Topic and can see where Tigo's response could be improved upon. I will reach out to the Engineer that closed the conversation, and I will also contact M Wiedner (via the new post). I am hoping to guide the conversation to a more successful resolution for all. 

    I invite you to contribute to the discussion as you may have additional insight that is relevant to that post.

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    Permanently deleted user

    Hallo Curtis,

    recht viel "positives" kann ich seitens TIGO nicht wirklich erkennen.

    TIGO weicht Fragen aus, TIGO gibt kaum Antworten und schließt, wie im Beitrag mit M. Wiedner dann einfach den Beitrag.

    Oder leitet die Anfrage des Users an den Support weiter, um ihn ja in der Community nicht veröffentlichen zu müssen.

    Uns ALLE interessieren aber die Antworten, die Lösungen. Vor einigen Monaten ist bei einem Beitrag von mir doch eine heftige Diskussion unter mehreren Usern und TIGO-Fachleuten entstanden; und was ist geschehen - der Beitrag wurde einfach gelöscht.

    Mir kommt es irgendwie vor wie beim Diesel-Skandal, wo alle Hersteller anfänglich gesagt haben das es kein Problem gäbe.

    Irgendwann wird auch TIGO - und daran glaube ich auch - Fragen ehrlich beantworten, und nicht wie man am Beitrag von M. Wiener sieht, nur Märchen bzw. Belangloses erzählen, und dann feige - ja es ist in meinen Augen feige, aus der Position des Stärkeren, die Diskussion abwürgt.  

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    Hello Curtis,

    I can't really see a lot of "positive" things from TIGO.

    TIGO avoids questions, TIGO hardly gives any answers and then simply closes the post, as in the post with M. Wiedner. Or forwards the user's request to support so that it doesn't have to be published in the community. But we are ALL interested in the answers, the solutions. A few months ago, a fierce discussion arose among several users and TIGO experts over a post I made; and what happened - the post was simply deleted.

    It somehow seems to me like the diesel scandal, where all manufacturers initially said that there was no problem.

    At some point TIGO will - and I also believe in that - answer questions honestly and not, as you can see from M. Wiener's contribution, only tell fairy tales or trivial things, and then cowardly - yes, in my eyes it is cowardly, from the position of Stronger ones that stifle discussion.

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  • Avatar
    MW

    @.... While we have talked so far we did not find a good solution.

    I have shared all the frequency details of both Zigbee, Wifi, and even that of neighbouring systems (I am an ex engineer on stuff like this!), even the IEEE addresses of all devices.

    The team wanted to add all the additional optimisers, which they did, no change (as expected).  The latest suggestion is to change the channel of my zigbee network - this I do not want to do, as I have around 100 devices and some will need to be repaired - some may not work on a different frequency, moving zigbee frequency may also then suffer interference from wifi and so on.  Some are even embedded in the ceiling and will need floors to be removed!

    I notice the CCA is running a local Webserver, but do not know the user/pass - perhaps there are settings I can change under here?

    The only working way at the moment is to not turn on the TAP at all.

    So I am waiting for response from Jacopo presently, but I messaged late today as I've been running major IT incidents all day.

     

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    Permanently deleted user

    Hallo Matthew, auch trotz meiner Ärgernisse mit den Optimierern, würde ich den TAP nur wegen einiger Tests abschalten. Ansonsten fällt ja die komplette Überwachung weg und für mich ist auch die Schnellabschaltung ein interessantes und sehr wichtiges Feature. Ob die wiedergewonnene Power stimmt wird ja auch von vielen Experten ohnedies angezweifelt.

    Diese Dinger auf dem Dach dürften doch sehr massive Störsender sein!!!

    Hr. Wiedner hat sich heute mir mit telef. in Verbindung gesetzt. Er kommt aus Deutschland und somit konnte ich mit ihm auch ein interessantes Gespräch führen.

    Hier noch einmal meine Emai-Adresse:"adolf@schnecker.at" , die leider falsch übersetzt wird auf "adolf@wormer.at". 

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    Hi Matthew, even with my annoyances with the optimizers, I would turn off the TAP just for some testing. Otherwise there is no complete monitoring and for me the quick shutdown is an interesting and very important feature. In any case, many experts also doubt whether the regained power is right.

    Those things on the roof must be massive jammers!!!

    Mr. Wiedner phoned me today. He comes from Germany and so I was able to have an interesting conversation with him. Here is my e-mail address again: "adolf@wormer.at", which unfortunately is incorrectly translated to "adolf@wormer.at".

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  • Avatar
    MW

    @Adolf Schnecker, I have sent you a mail (firstname@lastname.at) to tell you in slightly more detail some testing I have done today with regards zigbee channels. Please check.

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  • Avatar
    MW

    @Curtis,

    I saw comment from you but it appears to have been deleted. I will answer it anyway.

    Yes my system is online. I was not encouraged that any resolution would be found via Tigo support and decided to change the zigbee channel. As I mentioned this is no small task with over 100 devices that must be re-paired to the coordinator. Some devices are embedded in light fittings, under floors and so on. After completing this, and customisations to devices properties are lost, I estimate about two weeks of effort.

    I was worried that changing zigbee channel not every device would be supported (I have nearly as many manufacturers as devices!). I have some very old and early devices which work perfectly from back when I was involved with smart home startup companies.

    Support continue to focus on the coordinator incorrectly, as I have proven with even this device fully powered off the interference continued.

    At least so far changing zigbee channels has been successful and no device seems to have issues with Tigo interference so far.

    I have one more issue (device does not see my Wi-Fi) and a concern about the CCA running a local web server which I have no knowledge of user/pass, however I will follow through with support on those points directly.

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  • Avatar
    MW

    Curtis,

    I raised the point that CCA does not see my Wi-Fi SSID ( channel 13).

    I’ve been told to open *incoming* ports on my router. I can’t believe that support would say something like this. Ports make no odds before a layer 1 ‘physical’ connection is established. It would also be bad security practise.

    How to speak to someone who understands networking?

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    Permanently deleted user

    Hallo Matthew,

    einfach hartnäckig daran bleiben. TIGO ist damit anscheinend komplett überfordert, das habe ich oftmals bei Fragen an den Support bemerkt.

    Vor allem wirst du auch keine Antworten bekommen, wenn du nach Daten und Fakten verlangst. Dann kommen als Antwort nur Stehsätze.

    TIGO zeichnet enorm viele Daten auf und ist dann leider nicht in der Lage, plausible Informationen zu liefern.

    Wie ich bereits in einem vorhergegangenen Statement geschrieben habe: "Es kommt mir vor wie beim Dieselskandal, bei dem alle Hersteller zunächst sagten, es gäbe kein Problem."

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    Hello Matthew,

    just be persistent. TIGO seems to be completely overwhelmed with this, which I often noticed when asking support.

    Above all, you will not get any answers if you ask for data and facts. Then only standing sentences come as an answer.

    TIGO records an enormous amount of data and is then unfortunately unable to provide plausible information.

    As I wrote in a previous statement: "It seems to me like the diesel scandal where all the manufacturers initially said there was no problem."

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  • Avatar
    MW

    Support came back today to say 100% Tigo support Wifi channel 13, and saying it must be my wifi.

    This makes no sense, so I changed the wifi channel to 11.  Amazingly Tigo now sees the wifi with no issue.  I've repeated this experiment 5 times, and each time it is exactly the same.  Tigo does not find wifi on channel 13, but it does on 11.

    I've offered to give feedback to Tigo management, however it has been refused by support. Curtis, if anyone would like to discuss with me all my findings I would be happy to do so.

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  • Avatar
    Curtis Community Moderator

    Hello MW

    Thank you for your reply.

    I do not know the precise answer to that question, because there are certain key factors about your network and location that may come into play. However, I have shared my thoughts on the subject, with the Support Team and they will research this topic for a more definitive answer.

    In the meantime, we greatly appreciate your patience with this process. 

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  • Avatar
    Stuart Alexander

    I also have this issue, and it happens even without the TAP or CCA.  In fact I purchased one as is the only way to interface and troubleshoot.

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    MW

    @Stuart. I had to change my home automation zigbee channel in the end. I found that channel 15 didn’t have so many issues.

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    Stuart Alexander

    MW I wish it were that easy, but it also knocks out my 2.4ghz wifi.  I've tried changing to every different channel, tried 3 makes of routers, mesh networks, placement and whatever.  Once the sun hits the panels, the wifi drops every few minutes.

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